We isolate a simple preservation principle governing when it is absolute, between transitive models of set theory, that a given algebraic or topological-algebraic structure has a standard form F (X) indexed by a set X. The principle is: if the index X (or a proxy for it) can be recovered from F (X) by a uniform definable construction, then the class of structures isomorphic to some F (X) is downward absolute from forcing extensions. Answering a question raised by Noah Schweber, we deduce in particular that no group that fails to be a full symmetric group in the ground model can become one after forcing; the result holds already in ZF. The same mechanism applies to full transformation monoids, powerset Boolean algebras, full relation algebras, full clones, full partition lattices, products RX of finitely generated centrally indecomposable rings, the commutative C^* -algebras _ (X) and c₀ (X), full endomorphism rings, the operator algebras B (H) and K (H), and ₁ (X) as a real Banach lattice. In the motivating symmetric-group case, the same reconstruction gives more than descent: it yields a uniform ¹₁ definition of fullness over transitive ZF -models. We then exhibit clean torsor obstructions, in the standard symmetric-model situation: finite covers Y n already separate ZF -failure from ZFC -descent without any completeness caveat, and the finite-support normed space c₀₀ (I) provides the analogous Banach example. Bare-Banach-space isomorphism with ₁ () exhibits a genuine ZFC -descent. We conclude with the corresponding, relative, obstructions to ¹₁ -definability of standardness over transitive ZF -models.
Tomasz Kania (Mon,) studied this question.
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